Sheikh Ahmad Abubakar Mahmud Gumi
is a reporter’s delight any day . Without prior appointment and long
protocols associated with public figures of his caliber in Nigeria,
Gumi, spoke for about 45minutes with The Sun Newspapers recently
in his Kaduna office on how Nigeria could come out of the Boko Haram
contraption wondering why President Goodluck Jonathan would insist on
running for re-election when Nigerians die daily.
Said
he : “Just look at the argument, they say Boko Haram was a reaction
against Jonathan’s government, but I don’t buy the argument. Obasanjo
is a Southerner, there was no such thing when he was in charge. Gowon is
a Christian, there was no such thing during his regime.
“But
Maitasine started with Buhari and he mercilessly bombarded them,
before Shagari inherited it. Buhari and Shagari are Muslims. So, that
dismisses the earlier argument. But assuming it is true, does the
President want the killings to continue as he’s presenting himself for
re-election? The wisest thing to do, for the sake of my children, his
children and your children, is for him not to seek re-election and let’s
bring somebody that will not trigger reaction from any section of
Nigeria.
“You
know Buhari is very popular here in the north? But I said to him,
please do not seek to be Nigeria’s President. You know why? It will
trigger reaction from another section that doesn’t want him. If Awolowo
were to be alive today, I will tell him, Baba, please do not contest
Nigeria’s presidency because there is a section of the country that
doesn’t like you. So, let us go for people that nobody will take arms
against, so he can manage the situation for us. We want to pacify the
nation.
“And
in doing that, we must not force people who could trigger turmoil on
the nation. It’s not defeatist, it is wise.When Nigeria becomes lawless,
Boko Haram will have a field day. And that is not an option. We have
to talk to ourselves. Whoever helps Nigeria to achieve this is also
helping it to stabilize. I just hope people will listen. Terrorism has
no boundary. Nobody is safe anywhere. It is not going to stop in
Nigeria. Nobody can stop Nigerians from going to Europe. So how do you
identify terrorists among those traveling? It’s in the best interest of
America that terrorism is crushed in Nigeria. Terrorism is now an
opportunity for every mentally derailed person to kill himself or
herself in the name of going to paradise. Somebody is just suffering
from depression, but rather than committing suicide and die, he joins an
organization that encourages him/her to ‘come and collect weapons and
die with others so you can go to paradise.’ So our best option is to
open a new page”.
Gumi,
a retired military officer, also spoke on why he thinks the US is
backing Boko Haram, the decay in the Nigerian Army, why the Nigerian
Army cannot get weapons from the US and the need to crush Boko Haram
decisively among many other issues of national interest. Excerpts:
US
promised to assist Nigeria to fight Boko Haram. They have been around
since then but there is no improvement. They have refused to sell arms
to Nigeria, yet they are blocking Nigeria from getting arms elsewhere.
Will it therefore be right to say the US is giving a tacit support for
Boko Haram?
When
you see insurgency anywhere in the world, like what is happening in
Iraq, it is more than what the ordinary eyes can see. In this era of
advancement in technology, it is very difficult for a convoy of
militants to go about in Hilux vehicles, mounting heavy guns, to be
roaming about, without the knowledge, approval and support of the super
powers. It is unimaginable.
These
guns cannot be carried by men, they have to be carried by vehicles.
High caliber projectors and bullets are carried by these vehicles. And
any vehicle that moves can easily be identified from the sky. In fact
you cannot carry the guns, you have to dismantle them. So, it is global
politics going around.
Why the politics? What could have been responsible for it?
One,
if nations that have oil break up, it’s the buyers that benefit, not
the seller. Iraq has a lot of oil. In the north are the Shiites and in
the middle are the Sunnis. You cannot just come and divide a country
like that out of the blues, except there is a serious reason to divide
it.
And
such serious reason could be religious divide not even ethnicity. So,
if you want to divide Nigeria, something like Boko Haram is good.
Support them, direct them, take a big chunk of Nigeria, and let the rest
say, ‘ok, let’s be on our own.’ But that will be extremely difficult
for them to do because not even Muslims would like to be under Boko
Haram. Not even Muslims, let alone non-Muslims.
So,
if Boko Haram is taking over towns, Muslims will be agitated, the way
we are all agitating because Boko Haram represents anything but Islam.
How did we find ourselves in this sorry state? I mean, could the military have unknowingly created the problem?
What
we noticed, before talking about the US angle, is the fact that Boko
Haram is getting empowered and protected, while the Nigerian Army is
decaying. The Nigerian Army cannot decay from outside, it has to decay
from within. So, there is a force also sapping the energy of the
Nigerian Army from within.
How do you mean?
The
army is not well funded. There is a budget for it quite okay, but it
does not trickle down. So, you have to look into the command structure
of the armed forces itself. How, in the face of this big threat is the
army immune to development? America stopped our army from getting arms,
because of the atrocities committed by our army. It’s true, that there
was genocide, mass incarceration of people. But the army should have
long been equipped before these accusations came up. But unfortunately,
no attempt was made towards that.
What could have been responsible for that?
Historically,
the Nigerian Army has been an avenue for siphoning billions of naira by
our Generals. All the money earmarked for weapons is stolen by our
Generals. They are already intoxicated by it. It is like people dealing
in cocaine, can you stop them? I could remember when the Infantry
Divisions were converted to Mechanized Infantry Divisions, I was in the
army myself, then. By that, it meant soldiers would no longer go on
foot for operations, but move in Amoured Personnel Carriers, APCs. But
in a whole Division, you find only three APCs and these three APCs were
refurbished after the Second World War. But look at the billions of
naira that have been stolen in the past, in the name of equipping these
divisions. The truth is that there was never a truly full Mechanized
Division. I left the army in 1987. It was all lies. So, it did not
start today.
When
Boko Haram started initially, it was wayo. It was about “let’s eat and
grab what we can grab.” They never knew it would get out of hand. Once
emergency was declared, the army thought they could frighten the society
by killing, maiming and arresting some people. They thought that would
stop Boko Haram. But instead of curtailing it,they were fuelling it.
How, if I may ask?
Somebody
who has lost his father, brother or uncle would just join Boko Haram
to seek revenge. Also, soldiers who have seen so many die in detention
will lack the courage to fight on. Yes, they are soldiers, but they are
also human beings.
So,
with all these, US, will not allow weapons to be sold to an army that
has been documented by their own records to have committed atrocities.
The US is accountable.
But Boko Haram is also killing people. Why is the US not seeing anything wrong in that?
There
is a difference between a constituted authority and an outlawed group.
Armed robbers are different from policemen. An armed robber can come in
here now and spray everybody, but a policeman cannot do that. No,
because there is the issue of legality. We are not rogues, we are a
government, and we must be seen to behave like one.
When
there was no threat, they were embezzling the money, without buying
any weapons. But now they truly need the weapons, but the US is saying
no because it feels giving Nigerian Army weapons is like giving weapons
to Boko Haram, no difference. Boko Haram kills and Nigerian Army kills.
They bury people, you bury people. They slaughter, you slaughter, no
difference.
So
do you expect Boko Haram to obey the Geneva Convention? No, it has no
respect for that. So, if the US wants to divide Nigeria, what the
Nigerian government did, and has been doing, perfectly fits into their
plan. The US did not need to do much. We just fell into the trap.
So how do we get out of the trap now?
It’s
bitter, but we must make sacrifice. In Europe, if an authority is
involved in any scandal, it gives way. We all know why Nixon left office
over the Watergate scandal. If Nigerians can learn from this, I believe
we can move forward. Bring new set of people, who have no stains on
their hands and put them forward, not recycling old politicians. These
people can start afresh with the Ameririfice. In Europe, if an authority
is involved in can government because they will see them as new
players. But let me also warn that we must make haste to crush Boko
Haram.
Crushing
them does not entail granting them amnesty. You cannot grant amnesty to
a group of people who neither respect religious laws nor constituted
authority. They have no respect for any law. So they do not deserve any
amnesty.
So, should we turn to Russia to purchase arms ?
We
can buy weapons from anywhere. Nothing stops us from doing that. But
the greatest sacrifice we must make to end these mindless killings is to
stop the recycling of political leaders. We need new politicians,
whether in PDP or APC, give us new set of people, so we can open a new
page and begin afresh.
When
Bush took Americans to war blindly in Iraq, Americans came up with an
entirely new person, Obama, and washed their hands off Bush’s sins, and
in no distant time, the Bush chapter was closed. Americans opened a new
chapter. Let’s do the same here in Nigeria, and see if things won’t
change.Do you think that is possible in Nigeria?
Look
at it now, the suicide bombings has reached Kontagora in Niger State,
do you know the next target? Look, if you think you have money and
mansions in Abuja, don’t think you are safe. It could be anybody. This
thing has to be contained and it must be done immediately, but with a
new set of people. Americans have records of all our leaders. Bring new
faces to do it and see if Americans won’t cooperate. See Charles
Taylor, he was in the American army, but the American government did not
support him because he committed a lot of atrocities, the record of
which they have. If you want Nigeria to progress, bring new faces on
the national political scene. And the earlier we do the needful, the
better for all of us because nobody will be safe if the Nigerian Army
crumbles, nobody will be safe if Nigeria crumbles. So, the earlier we
accept that fact and do the right thing, the better for us and our
children. We need new set of people to run Nigeria.We can’t fight the
West, because no matter how bad the West is, they are still more humane.
You think so?
Yes,
I know. The East supports the most brutal regimes. Look at Assad in
Syria, how he is massacring and bombing civilians. Who is supporting
him? The East. The West can never do that.
Talking
about bringing in new players, election is next year. What do we do
between now and next year? Do we just fold our arms and allow Boko Haram
to continue killing us before election?
Just
look at the argument. They say Boko Haram was a reaction against
Jonathan’s government, but I don’t buy the argument. Obasanjo is a
Southerner, there was no such thing when he was in charge. Gowon is a
Christian, there was no such thing during his regime.
But
Maitasine started with Buhari and he mercilessly bombarded them before
Shagari inherited it. Buhari and Shagari are Muslims. So that dismisses
the earlier argument. But assuming it is true, does the President want
the killing to continue? Is that why he’s presenting himself for
re-election? The wisest thing to do for the sake of my children, his
children and your children, is for him to give way, and let’s bring
somebody that will not trigger reaction from any section of Nigeria.
You
know Buhari is very popular here in the north? But I said to him,
please do not seek to be Nigeria’s President. You know why? It will
trigger reaction from another section that doesn’t want him. If Awolowo
were to be alive today, I will tell him, Baba, please do not contest
Nigeria’s presidency because there is a section of the country that
doesn’t like you. So, let us go for people that nobody will take arms
against, so he can manage the situation for us. We want to pacify the
nation and in doing that, we must not force people who could trigger
turmoil on the nation. It is not defeatist , it is wisdom. It’s
defeatist when the forces fight, one capitulates and gives way. Then,
everybody will lose. And when Nigeria becomes lawless, Boko Haram will
have a field day. And that is not an option. We have to talk to
ourselves. Whoever helps Nigeria to achieve this is also helping it to
stabilize. I just hope people will listen. Terrorism has no boundary.
Nobody is safe anywhere. Even the Americans, if they are doing it for
oil, they are equally not safe. It’s not going to stop in Nigeria.
Nobody can stop Nigerians from going to Europe. So, how do you identify
terrorists among those traveling? It’s in the best interest of America
that terrorism is crushed in Nigeria. Terrorism is now an outlet for
every mentally derailed person to kill himself or herself in the name of
going to paradise. Somebody is just suffering from depression, but
rather than committing suicide and die, he joins an organization that
says ‘come and collect weapons and die with others so you can go to
paradise.’ So our best option is to open a new page.
But
this new page you are talking about, how workable is it, considering
the deep seated animosity and suspicion between Muslims and Christians
in Nigeria?
No,
it is not about Christians or Muslims. We trust Christians and they
trust us. It’s the leaders. There are Christian leaders Muslims don’t
trust and Muslim leaders Christians don’t trust. These leaders should
just give way and allow Nigeria to move forward.
It
is not every Christian that is not trusted. Let me give you an example,
everybody has seen how Jonathan handled the issue. If somebody like
Ameachi comes, Nigerians are likely to want to give him a benefit of the
doubt because he has not been tried at that level before. Give us
somebody new. Why will you insist it must be you, when people are dying?
Look
at Awolowo, he was the leader of the Yoruba, but he could not win
election outside the West. But when Abiola came, did he not beat Tofa in
the north, including Kano? So, Nigeria’s interest should be first.
Christian Association of Nigeria, CAN, after the arms scandal should
have replaced their president with somebody like Kukah or any other
Christian that we can trust. This is the natural thing to do. We must
imbibe that culture here and the media must help our leaders to imbibe
the culture of quitting once there is a stain on them for the sake of
our future.
via nigerianeye
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